JKU Long Arm Thread

[Crawl2Camp]

So I know there is plenty of experience out there with this group in regard to JK long arm “kits”.  I know many are moving on to triangulated 4 links rears and 3 link fronts etc. from the likes of Genright and Motobilt etc., along with people trying different joints from any different manufacturers.  What are peoples experiences with some of the regular “market” long arms “kits” like EVO high clearance, Rock Krawler, Clayton, Hepta (doubt any experience) or Metalcloak etc.?  

Right now after purchasing axles and other associated supporting mods, I dont really want to drop another 10+K into a custom long arm setup referenced above that many are doing.  A 3K off the shelf long arm kit however is doable, but is it really worth it…. 

Any debate, feedback and experiences with these “kits” would be beneficial to both myself and any others that may be moving to that next level.  

Thanks in advance for peoples input, feedback, thoughts and recommendations.

[fiend]

I don’t have any direct experience with long arm kits. Just some observations.  
 

Unless things have changed, the metal cloak kit is basically a radius arm kit in front. I’m sure radius arms have their defenders, but my impression is that it’s not a step forward if your looking for improved performance.  The “lock n load” thing seems gimicky to me, but a fair amount of metalcloak stuff seems gimicky to me and yet the company has a lot of loyal users. So who knows. 
 

I used to be sold on the EVO high clearance kit. Came fairly close to getting one. But I have known at least four people that have had issues with it. Cracks at the rear frame side brackets. Maybe poor installation, although at least a couple of the guys had the work done by EVO, who you’d think would know how best to install their own kit. The brackets look flimsy to me.  Anyway, this is my opinion and I’m sure plenty of people have used the kit without problems and would tell me I’m full of shit. 

[Jdofmemi]

1 hour ago, fiend said:

I don’t have any direct experience with long arm kits. Just some observations.  ...... 
 

 

I used to be sold on the EVO high clearance kit. Came fairly close to getting one. But I have known at least four people that have had issues with it. Cracks at the rear frame side brackets. Maybe poor installation, although at least a couple of the guys had the work done by EVO, who you’d think would know how best to install their own kit. The brackets look flimsy to me.  Anyway, this is my opinion and I’m sure plenty of people have used the kit without problems and would tell me I’m full of shit. 

My opinion, after wheeling Vengeance for a year, is that if it is representative of an EVO shop build, I would not trust them to install much. 

 

Lots of shortcuts taken, welds missing, and general shoddy work. 

 

The work they have done will generally hold up with their average customer who only wheels a little bit, or not at all, but when pushed like most in this group will, the lack of quality will show up. 

 

Looking at the work out in by some here to properly install the kit, and to reinforce how it mounts to the frame, I doubt any shop is going to that level to get it right. 

 

To do it right, in my opinion, the body needs to be raised at least 5 to 6" in order to properly weld the upper side of the frame mounts. When they are not welded fully, they can flex, which leads to metal fatigue and breakage. 

[Jdofmemi]

10 hours ago, Crawl2Camp said:

So I know there is plenty of experience out there with this group in regard to JK long arm “kits”.  I know many are moving on to triangulated 4 links rears and 3 link fronts etc. from the likes of Genright and Motobilt etc., along with people trying different joints from any different manufacturers.  What are peoples experiences with some of the regular “market” long arms “kits” like EVO high clearance, Rock Krawler, Clayton, Hepta (doubt any experience) or Metalcloak etc.?  

Right now after purchasing axles and other associated supporting mods, I dont really want to drop another 10+K into a custom long arm setup referenced above that many are doing.  A 3K off the shelf long arm kit however is doable, but is it really worth it…. 

Any debate, feedback and experiences with these “kits” would be beneficial to both myself and any others that may be moving to that next level.  

Thanks in advance for peoples input, feedback, thoughts and recommendations.

 

I was pretty sold on going the direction you are talking about, but seeing first hand the difference in performance, and how I wheel my Jeep, led me to drop the idea. 

 

I do feel the long arms are a big step up from the stock short arms, especially in the front. If you look at your front tire, when dropped out all the way, it has moved to the rear by about 3". This means, in order to climb that tire up a wall, it has to push the other 3 tires back by that amount. 

 

With long arms in front, this distance is cut roughly in half, making it much easier to get up obstacles. 

 

As posted above, no matter what brand, the install is the key to making it less likely to have problems. 

 

Any long arm kit that is not also high clearance is going to be a huge disappointment, as you will have low hanging brackets that grab rocks and ledges well before the tire gets there to lift you up over it. 

 

The more technical crawling you do, the more the difference between the long arms and the DT 4 link will show. 

When flexing the rear will walk over to a different line, making it hard to stay up on certain places. 

 

If you see a lot of technical crawling in your future, saving for a 4 link will make you happier in the long run. 

 

Long arms will be a good step up from short though. 

 

 

[Crawl2Camp]

1 hour ago, fiend said:

I don’t have any direct experience with long arm kits. Just some observations.  
 

Unless things have changed, the metal cloak kit is basically a radius arm kit in front. I’m sure radius arms have their defenders, but my impression is that it’s not a step forward if your looking for improved performance.  The “lock n load” thing seems gimicky to me, but a fair amount of metalcloak stuff seems gimicky to me and yet the company has a lot of loyal users. So who knows. 
 

I used to be sold on the EVO high clearance kit. Came fairly close to getting one. But I have known at least four people that have had issues with it. Cracks at the rear frame side brackets. Maybe poor installation, although at least a couple of the guys had the work done by EVO, who you’d think would know how best to install their own kit. The brackets look flimsy to me.  Anyway, this is my opinion and I’m sure plenty of people have used the kit without problems and would tell me I’m full of shit. 

 

I appreciate your comments and input Greer.  Your “full of shit” comment just comes from your years of mental conditioning on WAL.  Yeah Metalcloak has their lock and load and I honestly would never even consider it.  I just don't like radius arms at all.  They also have a regular front 4 link long arm which looks decent, but the rear is their DB3 bolt on bracket much like Synergy has.  I’ve seen failures in this bracket.  Not sure why I even included Metalcloak in the list honestly..

Yeah I’ve seen a lot of talk of failure on the EVO rear bracket also.  There just seems to be a lot of extra force / bind? put on any of the brackets that are outboarded on the frame rail compared to stock or under the rail.  (On vehicles that are actually wheeled hard as you pointed out)

 Hepta seems to be a copy of the EVO kit  as far as the rear goes, with a slightly different bracket design. The front is a driver side 3 link.  Honestly this is a one man show

Rock Krawler..  I like their kit, although I'm not sure in the long run how their joints will hold up and if they will be a maintenance nightmare.  I’ve heard a lot of people complain about horrible customer service from them too.  


 

[fiend]

Again, maybe I’m off base, but I see the off the shelf long arm kits as similar to a semi float 60.  Yeah, there is some benefit, but you’re missing one or more of the main reasons for the upgrade, and/or maybe buying additional problems or shortcomings. The double triangulated system seems better in every respect, save for cost. Like full float 60s, it may be a cost worth saving for.  Regarding the front, I’d be wary of a system that ties the lower arm joints into a cross member that just bolts to the OE frame brackets. Those brackets were not designed to take a load like that.  JK Gear and Gadgets has a fairly recent video showing him having to deal with cracks there. I think along arms in front make a lot of sense, for the reasons Jerry stated, but I’d want to see either mounts independent of the cross member or something based off the cross member but with much stronger mounts of the member to the frame. 

[Crawl2Camp]

19 minutes ago, Jdofmemi said:

 

I was pretty sold on going the direction you are talking about, but seeing first hand the difference in performance, and how I wheel my Jeep, led me to drop the idea. 

 

I do feel the long arms are a big step up from the stock short arms, especially in the front. If you look at your front tire, when dropped out all the way, it has moved to the rear by about 3". This means, in order to climb that tire up a wall, it has to push the other 3 tires back by that amount. 

 

With long arms in front, this distance is cut roughly in half, making it much easier to get up obstacles. 

 

As posted above, no matter what brand, the install is the key to making it less likely to have problems. 

 

Any long arm kit that is not also high clearance is going to be a huge disappointment, as you will have low hanging brackets that grab rocks and ledges well before the tire gets there to lift you up over it. 

 

The more technical crawling you do, the more the difference between the long arms and the DT 4 link will show. 

When flexing the rear will walk over to a different line, making it hard to stay up on certain places. 

 

If you see a lot of technical crawling in your future, saving for a 4 link will make you happier in the long run. 

 

Long arms will be a good step up from short though. 

 

 

 

 

Thanks Jerry for your honest opinion.  I really feel like all of these solutions listed are a compromise at one place or another.  Maybe a temporary solution is to just run a front long arm kit for now like and leave the rears alone..  It’s not a very expensive change.  Or just leave everything alone and plan on doing a full suspension after my wife forgets how much we just spent on one tons, big tires and supporting mods.

 I agree that the best option is going with a good dual triangulated 4 link kit like Genright or Motobilt.  

[Gruff]

I ran the EVO LA kit and am one of the few here that didnt have any issues with the brackets. I will say the guy that did that install worked at 4wheel drive hardware back in the day and is a tech college welding shop teacher. Welds were top notch and above and beyond what is a typical install, so there is that.

 

What i will say is that there is no comparison to the quality of the bracketry from EVO to Genright/Motobilt/Artec/TMR.

NONE. All of the latter use full 1/4" plate. Evo is 3/16" at best. Doesn't sound like much but it sure is. 

 

[Nice Little Jeep]

On 5/30/2022 at 10:07 AM, Crawl2Camp said:

 

I appreciate your comments and input Greer.  Your “full of shit” comment just comes from your years of mental conditioning on WAL.  Yeah Metalcloak has their lock and load and I honestly would never even consider it.  I just don't like radius arms at all.  They also have a regular front 4 link long arm which looks decent, but the rear is their DB3 bolt on bracket much like Synergy has.  I’ve seen failures in this bracket.  Not sure why I even included Metalcloak in the list honestly..

Yeah I’ve seen a lot of talk of failure on the EVO rear bracket also.  There just seems to be a lot of extra force / bind? put on any of the brackets that are outboarded on the frame rail compared to stock or under the rail.  (On vehicles that are actually wheeled hard as you pointed out)

 Hepta seems to be a copy of the EVO kit  as far as the rear goes, with a slightly different bracket design. The front is a driver side 3 link.  Honestly this is a one man show

Rock Krawler..  I like their kit, although I'm not sure in the long run how their joints will hold up and if they will be a maintenance nightmare.  I’ve heard a lot of people complain about horrible customer service from them too.  


 

Where I believe the failures on the EVO high clearance kit is at the installation on the lack of welding. The instructions say weld everything on the brackets that contact the frame and I went a little above that, an area on the rear bracket that needed to be filled with material then install the bracket and weld. I have attached some pictures of the rear bracket. that’s mainly what I’m gonna talk about in this post is the rear bracket.

 

The first picture shows the areas that need to be welded all the way around every hole, even the square access hole for the lower control arm (behind the body Mount).
The second picture is the indentation in the frame where the old control arm used to bolt to the frame now has a void if you don’t fill that void and weld this area the bracket will flex.

The third picture is showing that area, it’s a square shape that’s a key area to weld. I filled that all in. I don’t see this opening on the older brackets. that square opening doesn’t exist in the older brackets. I’m seeing that on the new brackets and people are missing welding that portion. that’s where the brackets are failing.

What  you’re trying to do is now make this bracket one with the frame and if you do not create that bond you’re gonna have flex and the bracket will fail.

 

[Crawl2Camp]

After thinking things through, I’m pretty much set on running the short arm setup I have right now for a little while and then I’ll switch over to a good triangulated rear and 4 link long arm front.  After looking at things I think I'm pretty sold on the Motobilt kit, and will just get their tank and have my own arms made.  Great thing is that I get to see someone else here do it first.  Thank you sir!

[Jdofmemi]

Seeing Jeff's work in person in Arizona made me believe in that strategy. 

 

[fiend]

11 hours ago, Crawl2Camp said:

After thinking things through, I’m pretty much set on running the short arm setup I have right now for a little while and then I’ll switch over to a good triangulated rear and 4 link long arm front.

Pretty much the conclusion I came to. If I do the long arms it’ll be a ways down the road. Lots of other (non-Jeep) priorities to handle first. 

[AJK]

On 6/4/2022 at 6:11 PM, Crawl2Camp said:

After thinking things through, I’m pretty much set on running the short arm setup I have right now for a little while and then I’ll switch over to a good triangulated rear and 4 link long arm front.  After looking at things I think I'm pretty sold on the Motobilt kit, and will just get their tank and have my own arms made.  Great thing is that I get to see someone else here do it first.  Thank you sir!

Smart definitely a good decision.

[Nice Little Jeep]

Well, the EVO long arm system!!! Love it, hate it, whatever!  I had a failure on the passenger side lower control arm frame side, sheared off the bolt. I had a lengthy conversations regarding this issue. The rabbit hole we all can go down.

 

the fix for my Jeep right now is to shank the new bolts.  What shanking a bolt looks like:

 

what a bolt looks like not shanked:

 

I’m adding other pictures just for future references. The existing broken bolt could’ve been under torqued. the reason why I say that is there’s seven other bolts that have no failure and show no signs of failure. so I could’ve under torque this bolt. I doubt!!!! I over torque the bolt. 

I’m gonna repeat myself, I believe shanking these control arm bolts is the best direction for me.

[Nice Little Jeep]

frame side of the bolts

upper control arm the shank needs a min. 3” shank.  4-1/2” long bolt might be long enough after torquing with a shank at 2-13/16” and I would have used a 4-1/2” bolt if I didn’t already break a bolt.

 

9/16”-18 X 4.5 grade 8 bolt

 

Lower control arm the shank needed a min. 3-1/4” shank. 5” long bolt is good with a thick washer with a shank of 3-3/8”

9/16-18x 5” grade 8 bolt

 

A lot of work to shank bolts, I don’t think 4x kit manufacturers don’t understand how to shank bolts or they don’t want to spend the money.

 

[Jdofmemi]

One issue I think that keep the manufacturers from including the proper shank length bolts is that they end up being too long on the overall length for the location, causing each one to need to be cut to length.

 

Most people aren't willing to do that much work to get their bolts right, in spite of the increase in reliability by doing so.