Cage Discussion

[fiend]

3 hours ago, Gruff said:

 

I don't see how a cage naysayer can respond to something like this with any way but positive. When you add up all of the unsprung weight we drag around to run these 40's, There's no way a factory cage is standing up to this. Just no way

The potential for something like this is what I was referring to when I said some of the dumb shit we do. And this is really a pretty mild climb - it just happens to have a nasty drop off beside it.

The cage held up impressively, for sure.  I think what really saved that guy's bacon is that he didn't fall out during the roll and get crushed by his own jeep.  I'd be interested to know whether he had a harness.  As built as that jeep was, I can't imagine he just had stock seat belts.

[KevinG]

21 hours ago, Gruff said:

 

I don't see how a cage naysayer can respond to something like this with any way but positive. When you add up all of the unsprung weight we drag around to run these 40's, There's no way a factory cage is standing up to this. Just no way

The potential for something like this is what I was referring to when I said some of the dumb shit we do. And this is really a pretty mild climb - it just happens to have a nasty drop off beside it.

100% agree with this.  Knowing how much weight that is going to be on top for that second and third roll makes me a little sick to my stomach.  In the comments they say it's a CJ5 stretched 30" and was at SEMA.  

Also in the comments, kind of a crappy comparison since we are looking at a CJ vs. JL, but I'm pretty surprised how well a JL cage held up.

 

[fiend]

29 minutes ago, KevinG said:

100% agree with this.  Knowing how much weight that is going to be on top for that second and third roll makes me a little sick to my stomach.  In the comments they say it's a CJ5 stretched 30" and was at SEMA.  

Also in the comments, kind of a crappy comparison since we are looking at a CJ vs. JL, but I'm pretty surprised how well a JL cage held up.

 

So the interesting thing there is it is pretty much an identical roll at the same spot.  But a much heavier jeep, and with only a stock cage.  Looks like it held up remarkably well.  Obviously significant damage, but the passenger compartment stayed intact, which is the most important function of any cage.  

[Jdofmemi]

10 hours ago, KevinG said:

100% agree with this.  Knowing how much weight that is going to be on top for that second and third roll makes me a little sick to my stomach.  In the comments they say it's a CJ5 stretched 30" and was at SEMA.  

Also in the comments, kind of a crappy comparison since we are looking at a CJ vs. JL, but I'm pretty surprised how well a JL cage held up.

 

That's a fairly good result, for the JL cage.

 

I'm pretty sure they are better than the JK cage, having been around both. 

 

The 40s on stock axles didn't do so well, and the driver needed improvement, but ending the day without serious injury is a plus. Unlike the well built Jeep in the earlier example, this one won't be driving anywhere, and the tow bill will be exorbitant. 

 

 

[KevinG]

13 hours ago, Jdofmemi said:

. Unlike the well built Jeep in the earlier example, this one won't be driving anywhere, and the tow bill will be exorbitant. 

 

 

At least he was just at Potato Salad so not too far from town.

[fiend]

23 hours ago, Jdofmemi said:

That's a fairly good result, for the JL cage.

 

I'm pretty sure they are better than the JK cage, having been around both. 

 

The 40s on stock axles didn't do so well, and the driver needed improvement, but ending the day without serious injury is a plus. Unlike the well built Jeep in the earlier example, this one won't be driving anywhere, and the tow bill will be exorbitant. 

 

 

Maybe Trail Mater picked him up, you tubed the whole thing, and did the tow gratis. 
 

I’ll be interested to know whether the CJ guy, even if he drove it out, ended up with a huge repair bill or parted it out. 

[Jdofmemi]

13 hours ago, fiend said:

Maybe Trail Mater picked him up, you tubed the whole thing, and did the tow gratis. 
 

I’ll be interested to know whether the CJ guy, even if he drove it out, ended up with a huge repair bill or parted it out. 

Doubtful on the first part, even if filmed for the tube. 

 

On the second part, I guess it would come down to the personality of the owner. 

 

I would clean it up a bit and keep wheeling, others would do a complete rebuild, while others would part it out or sell it whole. 

 

 

[suicideking]

Still looking into this. So far the place in WA seems to be the best because they're the only ones that seem to want to do all tube, no angle iron up front. I've contacted quite a few places. Some CLAIM they can do it, but then don't call me back, can't provide any pictures, etc. 

 

Not looking forward to driving to WA, but it does appear that they're one of the only builders that have their shit together. 

 

I've also done more reading on cage building. Angle iron (stancions) can't even support around 200lb or a decent hit with a BFH. I figure if you take a bad hit, the angle iron could impale you. The angle iron is used because it's easy for the MFG and installer, not because it's a good option for safety. It's also not allowed for race vehicles. 

 

Also lots of info regarding triangulation. You should be able to spot the triangles in a good cage pretty easily. If not, need to add some. Some have taken retail cages and added triangles to them which can be sufficient. Though many of the retail cages seem to be worse than the factory cage. The Rock Hard bolt on cage comes to mind.

 

[AJK]

On 6/2/2023 at 10:18 AM, suicideking said:

Still looking into this. So far the place in WA seems to be the best because they're the only ones that seem to want to do all tube, no angle iron up front. I've contacted quite a few places. Some CLAIM they can do it, but then don't call me back, can't provide any pictures, etc. 

 

Not looking forward to driving to WA, but it does appear that they're one of the only builders that have their shit together. 

 

I've also done more reading on cage building. Angle iron (stancions) can't even support around 200lb or a decent hit with a BFH. I figure if you take a bad hit, the angle iron could impale you. The angle iron is used because it's easy for the MFG and installer, not because it's a good option for safety. It's also not allowed for race vehicles. 

 

Also lots of info regarding triangulation. You should be able to spot the triangles in a good cage pretty easily. If not, need to add some. Some have taken retail cages and added triangles to them which can be sufficient. Though many of the retail cages seem to be worse than the factory cage. The Rock Hard bolt on cage comes to mind.

 

That's pretty scary about getting impaled. Ouch!

[suicideking]

Update: My Jeep is going to Exile Fab in Apple Valley on 9/9. He's going to do a custom cage. All tube, no plate. He will probably have it for 1.5 - 2 months. 

 

His Instagram:

 

https://www.instagram.com/exilefabrications/

 

He's done work on Utltra 4 cars. 

 

At one point, it was looking like someone that used to work for Blaine was going to do the Genright cage and mod the front for tube instead of plate. That ended up being too expensive, significantly more that a custom cage. 

[Jdofmemi]

Sounds solid!

 

Looking forward to seeing it finished. 

[suicideking]

One of the Jeeps he's done:

 

[suicideking]

Progress so far. 

 

[Gruff]

5 minutes ago, suicideking said:

Progress so far. 

 

 

Looks good. How's he tying it into the dash/floor?

[suicideking]

38 minutes ago, Gruff said:

 

Looks good. How's he tying it into the dash/floor?

 

Dash is with tube going behind the dash to the floor. He replaced the body mounts with aluminum and will tie to that. 

[suicideking]

Here's why many won't do all tube up front going behind the dash. Quite the pain in the ass to install and why I'll be a little broke this Christmas season. 

 

He still needs to add the windshield V and the harness bar. Then off to the powder coater. Said he's trying to get me out before Christmas because he has another classic car coming in. So definitely looking forward to getting it back.

 

 

 

 

 

[Jdofmemi]

17 hours ago, suicideking said:

Here's why many won't do all tube up front going behind the dash. Quite the pain in the ass to install and why I'll be a little broke this Christmas season. 

 

He still needs to add the windshield V and the harness bar. Then off to the powder coater. Said he's trying to get me out before Christmas because he has another classic car coming in. So definitely looking forward to getting it back.

 

 

 

 

 

Looks good. 

 

Does the A pillar also tie in to the firewall?

 

It's hard to tell from the pictures. 

 

Since that is the strongest part of the tub, it seems to me a good idea to also attach to it. 

 

How about behind the seats, getting the X brace as well?  That's really what keeps us all square in event it gets tested. 

 

Looking forward to seeing you out with this one again! 

[suicideking]

44 minutes ago, Jdofmemi said:

Looks good. 

 

Does the A pillar also tie in to the firewall?

 

It's hard to tell from the pictures. 

 

Since that is the strongest part of the tub, it seems to me a good idea to also attach to it. 

 

How about behind the seats, getting the X brace as well?  That's really what keeps us all square in event it gets tested. 

 

Looking forward to seeing you out with this one again! 

 

Cage will tie into the chassis via bolted brackets on the floor plates on all 6 points. Said If a Roll cage goes through the firewall to the front part of the frame it can not be removable it is a full race cage at that point welded in. 

 

He is doing a harness bar, but said the X brace would not work because it would interfere with usage of the back seat. So he's not doing the X. I'm already over budget because the dash took him a long time. So not getting an aluminum roof either. He's going to tab for the roof so I can get it later. Thought of telling him to cancel the tabbing for the roof and tab for an X instead. 

 

 

[Savage90]

Just found this thread! Some really good discussion going on here! 
once I get my Jeep back I’ll be looking into a cage as the next large upgrade. 
 

another point I dont recall reading about was something happening at high speed. Since I’m just finishing up with my EVO DT install I’ll probably want to push the limits a little in the dirt. At this point I should also look into helmets as well. 

[Jdofmemi]

49 minutes ago, Savage90 said:

Just found this thread! Some really good discussion going on here! 
once I get my Jeep back I’ll be looking into a cage as the next large upgrade. 
 

another point I dont recall reading about was something happening at high speed. Since I’m just finishing up with my EVO DT install I’ll probably want to push the limits a little in the dirt. At this point I should also look into helmets as well. 

Yes on the helmet if you are going to push. 

 

I got an Axil

[suicideking]

1 hour ago, Savage90 said:

Just found this thread! Some really good discussion going on here! 
once I get my Jeep back I’ll be looking into a cage as the next large upgrade. 
 

another point I dont recall reading about was something happening at high speed. Since I’m just finishing up with my EVO DT install I’ll probably want to push the limits a little in the dirt. At this point I should also look into helmets as well. 

 

Same here. I got and Axel. I'm not planning to wear it all the time, but will on high risk stuff. Considering wearing it on the highway since I figure we're higher risk for a roll at high speed. When I get mine back, it will have more tubes in it. So wearing the helmet would be safer. I was on my way to Calico at night once and someone practically slammed into me changing lanes. You never know if there are drunks on the road. 

[Fury22]

This is quite an interesting convo… but seems that those arguing unless its a fully ultra 4 sanctioned cage thats its basically nothing at all seems to me to imply about a cages effectiveness on a high speed multiple roll and not a rock crawling flop. Even then cages like the genright cage on jkus have held up in pretty much all those scenarios from what Ive seen

[suicideking]

On 12/16/2023 at 8:10 AM, Fury22 said:

This is quite an interesting convo… but seems that those arguing unless its a fully ultra 4 sanctioned cage thats its basically nothing at all seems to me to imply about a cages effectiveness on a high speed multiple roll and not a rock crawling flop. Even then cages like the genright cage on jkus have held up in pretty much all those scenarios from what Ive seen

 

Just depends on what you're using it for. If you're not racing or going fast, then you don't need an ultra 4 cage setup. Not many are going to want the door bars where you have to climb over them to get in. For most weekend wheelers, the Genright or something similar would be fine. When mine is complete, it will be similar to the Genright, just going to have tube up front instead of stancions. 

 

Getting the Genright and changing the front to tube was one of my options. It ended up being similar in price to going with a custom cage, so I went that direction. 

[suicideking]

Cage is pretty much done, ready to be pulled and sent to the powder coater. 

 

I'm really dying to hit some trails, so looking forward to getting it back soon. It's been 3 months so far. 

 

 

[Jdofmemi]

2 hours ago, suicideking said:

Cage is pretty much done, ready to be pulled and sent to the powder coater. 

 

I'm really dying to hit some trails, so looking forward to getting it back soon. It's been 3 months so far. 

 

 

Looks pretty good, are you happy with how it's turned out?

 

Are you doing anything to tie the B and C pillars together?